Ego in Medical Model with Taylor Sappington

When you start thinking about changes that you wanna make in the new year, what do they look like? I'm talking about things more than just going back to the gym. 2023 is inviting us to think about what is important to us and what boundaries we're going to put in place to keep ourselves healthy and well-balanced.

Part of those boundaries for some of us are directly related to healthcare. Far too many of us walk in a doctor's office and feel like a number unseen and unheard. Where we go in search of answers isn't working because the intricate mosaic of the energetic, physical, and emotional body that is you is being lost in our current medical model.

I am so excited to have the brilliant Taylor Sappington of Taylored Wellbeing on the show as we talk about how ego in the medical model affects patient outcomes.

Be sure to join our free Reproductive Rebel Podcast Listeners Facebook group and tell us what you thought of the conversation and how you may have experience with how your care is influenced by providers.

To contact Taylor check out https://instagram.com/tayloredwellbeing

Transcript

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when you start thinking about changes that you wanna make in the new year, what do they look like? I'm talking about things more than just going back to the gym. 2023 is inviting us to think about what is important to us and what boundaries we're going to put in place to keep ourselves healthy and well-balanced. Part of those boundaries for some of us are directly related to healthcare. Far too many of us walk in a doctor's office and feel like a number unseen and unheard. Where we go in search of answers isn't working because the intricate mosaic of the energetic, physical, and emotional body that is you is being lost in our current. I am so excited to share with you the conversation that I had with Taylor Sappington of Taylor Wellbeing. Taylor is a brilliant practitioner, and it was my honor to have her on this show. Taylor and I have firsthand experience with not only the boundary setting, but also how the current medical model can leave us feel unsupported. Let's shift the narrative around our health as we walk into 2023. What are we willing to accept? Where are we going to turn for the answers that we seek? Stay with us. You won't wanna miss all the juiciness of this episode. Hi, I'm Adrian Azari. I am an eastern medicine practitioner who is passionate about women's health and helping women live their best lives. My goal is to put you in the driver's seat of your menstrual health offering period solutions for a symptom free life. Statements made in this program are for educational purposes only, and not intended as a substitution for medical consultation or advice. We do not claim to diagnose, treat, or cure any diseases. This podcast is inclusive and welcomes all gender identities. The focus of the program is on biological function, and we will use the term women throughout, but it is referencing physiological and social challenges for biology. Not identity. Come as you are. I am happy you're here and welcome all performances of identity. I hope you find something helpful in this show. So I am so excited for today's guest. She is just an amazing person, an amazing practitioner. I would love to welcome to the show Taylor Sappington of Tailored Wellbeing. Thank you so much for coming on the show. This is a conversation. Long overdue my friend. I am so excited to be here. Guys, we had like a warmup to the actual meeting, so we've been talking for an hour. almost but we're here now. We're here and I'm so excited to be here and I feel very lucky to know you like Kindred spirit. Oh, the feeling is absolutely mutual. That is for sure. If you haven't caught some of our previous conversations, you'll want to check out Taylor's podcast, tailored Talks. We've had a couple of very lively yes. Conversations about different parts of the system, how we work in the system, how we work outside of the system, and speaking of the system, this is a really there, right? Yeah. We are Yeah. We're, we're, we're coming to you today talking about how ego affects care. Can we all just drink that one in for a minute? Because I imagine there are many people in your listening audience that know exactly what we're talking about. Just being on the receiving end of practitioner healthcare provider that is so out of touch with who they are. And so in touch with the power that they have assumed in the position or the role that they now play. Yes. And often to the point where the person on the other side of that desk or in the other side of that conversation really feels like a number, and they don't feel seen, and they don't feel heard. You know, it's interesting because we have an entire medical industrial complex, that's what we'll call it, right? But we have an entire system that has been built off of metrics, which means just like in say the college setting, in many of these university settings, you're a number. I don't know if anybody, you, yourself, like, did you attend a college where like you were one of 500 in a lecture hall, and was that like an effective way for you to learn? I don't know about you, but I was like, I'm drowning and I need a life raft and I need one-on-one personalized attention, and I need you to walk me through this concept because I just learned differently, right? Mm-hmm. And how is that same principle then applied to the healthcare system where you're just a number, you're a butt on a bed in a room for five minutes to check a few boxes as someone types away and stares at their screen to move on. and when you go into that office either looking for answers because you've been to several practitioners leading up to this point and still have none, or you're there because you've had some heartbreaking thing happen in your life. As I'm talking about this, I'm thinking about many women who've come into my practice who were like, the doctor didn't even acknowledge that I was there because I lost my baby. and there wasn't even that level of compassion. And actually seeing the person on the other side of this conversation and saying, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry for your loss. Do you think that they're capable? Like, do you think that there is an awareness? And I don't mean that in the sense that like obviously a lot of these healthcare providers, all of them, not a lot of them, they're human, right? Mm-hmm. But do you think that there has been a degree of trauma that these healthcare providers that you know, have been subjected to that literally changes the way with which they perceive their patients experience? I think that that is the case for some, mm-hmm. I think for some, they go into these professions very well intentioned and wanting to mm-hmm. save the world and take care of people and make a difference. Right. And the model. Doesn't allow for them. Mm-hmm. to really have the full experience of why they wanted to go into medicine in the first place. But I do think that trauma is a factor also. Mm-hmm. because when you're dealing with a lot of heartbreaking things day in and day out, the human coping mechanism is to. Insulate yourself, right? Whether that's distancing yourself from the people that you're dealing with, or you kind of float through what it is that you're doing so that you are muting your emotional response. Mm-hmm. to what it is that you're dealing with. There are a variety of coping mechanisms mm-hmm. that I could see being used in little Ty and Pig T trauma situations. Right. I mean more so too, like I think that's really valid and accurate and observable. But I mean more so in like the training too. Mm-hmm. there is like this dehumanization in the training and the upbringing of a lot of these medical professionals. And like you said, I do think a lot of them move into the space of wanting to become healthcare providers from a well-intended, you know, point of origin. But I also think there are the people that just want the power. They were the kid that was made fun of in school and they have this big cerebral brain that's really capable and what a better place and space to utilize that than in the healthcare setting field. Because it's just going to support, obviously the distance that's created between practitioner and patient. Because there's this complex that's applied in the healthcare setting where the patient is inferior to the superior provider that is mm-hmm. you know, giving them care, which the whole idea of the care applied in the medical model is something that's wildly skewed in my opinion too. I don't know if there's actually any care provided or if a lot of what we see is triage inappropriate situations. I couldn't have worded that better. Honestly. The whole idea of it being triage, because from the moment the practitioner walks through the door, they have 15 minutes with you, and that's exactly what happens. They're trying to figure out your list of symptoms, what's risky, what's not. Essentially also because they have to worry about massive malpractice and all of that type of stuff, they're essentially also covering their own butt from always an evil perspective and making sure that they have successfully checked all of the, could I get sued for missing this type boxes? Mm-hmm. which is a form of triage, 100%. And so I thought you made a really interesting point too about the trauma and the training. Mm-hmm. I hadn't thought of it that way, but the moment you said it, I'm like, oh yeah, I would absolutely agree with that because you know, I've seen just in the work that I do, you have people, females Yeah. Who have female ob GYNs who sound like a mouthpiece of a patriarchal system, meaning they are regurgitating mm-hmm. what it was that they've been taught. Yeah. And this is the mouthpiece, this is the lens with which they have been taught. And so they are recycling what they know. Mm-hmm. from, which is so sad to me. It is. Well, I mean, the military does something kind of similar too, in the fact that you are supposed to be a good representation of the military organization, that you are a member of their certain level of expectation in how you talk, how you dress. Excellence, they call it quote excellence. Exactly. But the medical model has the same thing. Mm-hmm. your training creates a certain way that you think and you move through the world. Yeah. And it doesn't actually encourage critical thinking. And I don't know if anyone's paid attention to the last two years, how can you not pay attention? But the grossest pieces of neglect that we've seen in the medical industrial complex, particularly in the last few years, or at least that's how I feel it's been illuminated no less, is the lack of critical thinking that's actually present in the current healthcare model, or the paradigm that we're seeing being applied to patient care. And critical thinking is what allows for practitioners to actually apply individual like plans of care. And when you're given a uniform plan of care that's based on the symptoms that they're trying to triage in 15 minutes, actual medicine isn't practiced. Mm-hmm. like, it's just, it's not practiced. Right. And then you have these repeat patients. I don't know, we saw this a lot in the hospital. They were called repeat offenders. Right. But every time they came in, they have like a 30 day window where they could not be seen again. And if they came back in within that 30 days, they had to recode the patient so that the actual hospital wasn't penalized through the various insurance companies. Because a hospital would either be deducted pay, or they would have to offer pay back to the actual insurance company. Right. But like the lack of actual medicine and care that's applied in the healthcare system, I think is in part directly associated with the lack of art in medicine these days. I mean, that's one of the things that I love about working with you in these Eastern philosophies is there's art. And art doesn't actually allow for ego to infuse. Mm-hmm. the practice. Right. But there's lack of art in the application and there's lack of consideration of individual factors. Mm-hmm. Well, and the emotional and spiritual body are completely left out at the equation. Oh my God. So like the way that we pull bodies apart in order to triage them in order to, it's reductionistic it so is, and everybody is in a silo. Mm-hmm. So it's hard to get a coordination of care. It's hard to, you know, you've got one doctor that deals with your reproductive system. You've got one specialist that will teach you how to breastfeed your baby. You have another person that's going to tell you about why you're tired all the time. But you know, that doctor could be an e n t, it could be an endocrinologist. Like you could be sent in like one of four different directions. Mm-hmm. if you feel tired and it doesn't feel normal. So, and none of those offices talk. No, because you sign the paper and your records are supposed to transfer. Often you get there before the records do, and then you have an empty 15 minutes where the person goes, huh, we're gonna stare at each other because I don't have your records yet to know your history. It's so interesting too, because as you're saying this, I'm like sitting here thinking to myself, at what point in history did humans become so disconnected that they forgot what it actually means to be a human being? Mm-hmm. if we allow, it's kinda like letting Mother Nature do her thing. Like if we stopped trying to interrupt because we are an interruption. Okay. And human ingenuity is a beautiful thing, and no parts of this conversation are meant to sidestep the beauty of human ingenuity. Right. We probably wouldn't be driving cars without it. Mm-hmm. or flying airplanes, that's debatable depending on who you talk to. Right. like, but there are a variety of. Luxuries will call them that come from human ingenuity. But there's also a lot of destruction that comes from human ingenuity because we seem to think that we know better than Mother Nature without the pure recognition that she's been around for thousands of years. Mm-hmm. and is in no need of us actually staying here to continue to thrive. I think arguably if we were to be removed, she would be like, damn, I can take a big deep breath and actually hit a reset on my system. And I don't think it's any different when it comes to our ecosystem. There are so many interventions, that's what we call them, but a lot of these interventions are just interruptions. And these interruptions are rooted in somebody coming from. Rooted in ego, who thinks that they know better than the body. And I don't know about you, but I am not seeing a positive trend when it comes to the dataset associated with the way that medical care. And I say that in quotations, has been applied in the modern centuries. I agree completely with that because I just think about the people that I work with that have medications to deal with side effects of medications. And it ends up becoming this jigsaw puzzle of, oh, well this is a negative side effect of this thing that you're on. So let me give you this other thing to cancel that out. But this thing that's supposed to cancel this one symptom out actually has created three others. So let me give you something else. And it's all cerebral. Mm-hmm. right? And, and we're talking about. like symptoms where the body is essentially communicating with you saying, hi, this isn't working for me. Mm-hmm. and the ego in that equation is, oh, well I am smarter than what the body is telling me, and I have something else that I'm going to try to cover. Bandaid, blanket. Mm-hmm. that symptom with, instead of looking at it as, Houston, we have a problem. right? Well, and if we all got real with ourselves, including the physicians that are applying this care, the bandaid and the blanket is a business plan. Mm-hmm. And the reality of it is, I think if most healthcare providers really sat with themselves, right? Because one of the draws, at least it was back in the day, I don't know about these days, but one of the draws of becoming a doctor is the money that you make. Now, that's not to say that there's not massive debt that goes along with it as well too, but there's affluence associated with it. There's stature associated with it, and there's guaranteed. Income associated with it. And when we really start to talk about the band-aids and the blankets, we have to have an honest conversation as to what would actually happen if we removed the band-aids and we removed the blankets and we went to the root. The reality of that conversation is we would have a happier, healthier populace that didn't actually need the doctor. And that doesn't mean that heroic measures are not gonna be needed. Car accidents happen, bones get broken. Right. You know, heart attacks happen. And I tell clients, I'm sure you knew too all the time. Look, if you're having a heart attack, go to the nearest dr. What I have to offer is not going to help you. Now, the recovery period, little bit different, but no less. I think heroic measures is really where medicine shines. Mm-hmm. And outside of that, we've just created a beautiful business to. Fuel the gas tank of industries like the pharmaceutical companies. Mm-hmm. last time I looked at the statistics. Mm-hmm. we spend 19% of our gross domestic product on acutes. It's ridiculous. It's billions. We spend less than 4% on preventative care. Like I like Are we all listening to this? I think Adriannene and I are a little speechless at the moment, but I think the propensity of that statement, when you actually understand what it means, and I think part of the plan of this beautiful business that funds all of these interventions is that we disconnect people to the point that they don't understand. Right? Mm-hmm. oh, well, you know, like cancer, really hot topic. By no means am I an expert on it, but like, what is cancer at a cellular level? Most people can't answer that question. Right. It's just a proliferation. It's the poor utilization of stem cells. We kill stem cells. In groups in our gut, right? Mm-hmm. And when the ecosystem becomes diseased, we can't properly utilize the medicine that's been built into us. So now there's a business that's been built off of addressing the poorly managed ecosystem, and the ecosystem is mismanaged because we've encouraged people to disconnect from their bodies. Mm-hmm. this somehow started with ego, but here we are. This is how Adrian and I roll you know, when it comes to conversation. Well, but it totally ties back in because ego disconnects us. Yes. From the care from ourselves. Yep. Because we also Web MD the shit out of everything. Right? Google is always gonna tell you you're dying, you have an extra extremity you don't need, or it's gonna give you a list of interventions that are completely unnecessary. Mm-hmm. And you know, I'm not having this conversation from a place of let's demonize the allopathic model. Mm-hmm. because that's not it. Right. What it is, is an illumination. Of where their strengths are and where their weaknesses are. Yes. And when I see people walk into my practice and go, I had a stillbirth at 21 weeks, and the practitioner didn't make eye contact with me and didn't even acknowledge that I was there because of a loss. Mm-hmm. or I have the person that has had seven miscarriages walk into their doctor's office and go, why does this keep happening to me? And the reproductive endocrinologist laughs and goes, there's nothing wrong with your test results or your husband's test results, but we can do IVF with ixi and then walks out the door equally as fast. So that person whose head is now spinning because they expected to get an answer from an expert, because we are in a model where we're indoctrinated into this idea that. The doctors hold the answers. Mm-hmm. And it isn't until that moment where we come face to face with their ego. Mm-hmm. in the instance of the reproductive endocrinologist that I used in my analogy, it's their ego saying, oh, well, but I can fix this with Ixi when the woman goes, but I've been getting pregnant. How does that fix staying pregnant? Right. And he doesn't stick around for the conversation. I know this is gonna sound real sexist too. I mean, so be it. Here we are having a man, tell me what's going on with my body. big. Fuck that. Sorry guys. Like, I'm like, okay, I don't understand all your parts the way you understand them, because I don't live with a set of testicles and a penis. Okay. So like respectfully, I only have a certain cerebral mm-hmm. understanding of how they work. Right? So I can't sew lit up. And this happens with women too, so don't get me wrong, like women, I almost think at times the female practitioners are worse and the ego is bigger and there's more violence in the way they communicate than with the males. But I have a really hard time wrapping my head around your example where the endo, you know, the specialist is, or the fertility specialist, right? Reproductive specialist is a male not listening to the female who's supposed to be carrying the fetus no less. I'm gonna do this, we're gonna do this. Bye. And it's like, mm-hmm. and your cerebral understanding is glowing right now because you're not even willing to have a human conversation with me. Right. And by the time you get escalated, okay. Mm-hmm. because like this is a business. Mm-hmm. and you get kicked up the tears. Particularly if you are struggling with fertility, because this is an area I work in all the time. I see it with women all the time. Right. Who come into my practice and go, so I was trying for six months I got put into this infertility program. I've gotten this diagnosis of unexplained infertility. I've, you know what even is that right? Thank you. Because from my perspective, when it's all explainable, when you start to peel things apart, what is that? Right. I do not accept that as a diagnosis. I don't Mm. And yet I've seen it all over, and I'm gonna use myself as an example. I've seen it all over my chart. Mm-hmm. and it is what drove me to become the fertility person that I am now. Right. Cause I was always the why kid growing up, and I refused to accept that there was no why. Why I was having problems. Why I was, there's always a why. There's always a why. And that's the wisdom that I found in Eastern medicine. Mm-hmm. minus the ego. It was, well, I was gonna say, they don't carry ego. Do, do you know where Eastern Medicine picks up? Its ego in America. Sorry guys. But we have practitioners all over the United States that are practicing modalities that they've only gained experience with and from textbooks. Okay. And then they're applying this in practice and there's this American culture being infused with these Eastern practices and it's not meshing well because now we have these beautiful practices that can be so serving to bodies, you know, across the board that are infused with ego and that just, it dilutes the beauty of it. Mm-hmm. if we truly are able to step out of that ego space and get into the essence Yes. Of the problem. Yes. No pun intended for any Eastern practitioners that know that I'm talking about Jing, which is your essence. Right. But like it's a powerful question to ask. Mm-hmm. and thought-provoking in terms of what could it look like because my heart breaks every time I have somebody sit across a table from me explaining all the ways they tried to get help from a practitioner who didn't see them, who didn't hear them mm-hmm. and sent them onto the room with something that oftentimes didn't even apply to the reason they came in. Mm-hmm. because there were certain blanket assumptions made certain standard operating procedures that were followed, which is all part of that triaging process. And then out the door they went and every time you have to go back in that door, you are charged a lot of money. Your insurance company may or may not accept it, so you also have a pushing person behind a desk making decisions about whether you can have further interventions because you know that also further proliferates this idea that you are a number, right? Like I will never, ever forget, like our plan was supposed to cover three infertility treatments. Cool. I had two mishandled iis and so, but I didn't know that at the time. Right now, knowing what I know, I realize they missed the mark entirely. no follicular scan nothing. There was an i u I, it was very difficult to have this all done. Mm-hmm. for logistical reasons, et cetera, et cetera. And then to find out that the person who pushes the paper behind the desk was saying, oh, this was like three treatments total for the whole life of the plan, not plan year. So if I were to embark on I V F, I had one shot and that was it. Which we know it doesn't work out like that most of the time. And that is ego not looking at the human condition. Mm-hmm. and the, do you ever think too, like, not to bring this to an like a two esoteric place, but here we go. Do you ever think too, that some of the attempts with these different modalities, like I V F for example, the body rejects it, Because it's like, this is not the way that it's meant to be and I'm not ready, or I don't feel safe enough, or I don't think I have the resources I need in order to carry this to term and make it a good experience for me and the soul coming to me. Oh, that is such a great question. I truly believe as an Eastern medicine practitioner that there is a heavenly mandate that is fulfilled. Mm-hmm. Yep. And that it is heaven and earth coming together to create humanity. Yep. And I think that is, everybody should just chew on that for a minute. Heaven and Earth coming together to create humanity. I think not only should everybody chew on that, they should chew on it, and then they should look around and start going, what is going. Mm-hmm. I agree. Mm-hmm. because people put tens of thousands of dollars into the I B F process. Yes. And there's not a lot of guidance in terms of supporting mom's body. There's not a lot of education about what these additional levels of hormones are going to do to the body or the baby for that matter, or the baby. Yep. Mm-hmm. um, you know, what do birth outcomes look like for people who have had I V F? Um, are there heightened levels of risks during the pregnancy, during the birth? Like, have you seen this? Like, cuz I have in practice with women who have gone through this process and then they come out on the other end and it's like, what's up, what's down, what's right? What's left? And what goes where. I have, and I support people through assistive reproductive technology intervention. Right. And their outcomes are better. Well, of course, because you're combining the two, and I think we're missing the mark. There can be a beautiful marriage of Eastern and Western. Mm-hmm. and that beautiful marriage can create a lot of positive change. But when we only rely on one system and we mock, another change isn't gonna happen. Not seamlessly. And people are not gonna get the support that they need. And that's part of the egoic problem too. Why is what you and I do? Quackery. Oh, I wish I had an answer to that because I challenge that. Mm-hmm. question every single day because in my mind, mm. It's an aspect that has to be there because your medical intervention that you are getting from the allopathic model is not going to work or work as well or have complications if your emotional and spiritual body are not on board. I mean, we are a living example of that as a country. Hello? Mm-hmm. are, we're embodying that. We're not a sum of parts. No. We are an intricate, interconnected, sovereign being that if we feel like the intervention is against our will. Okay. And I'm saying that not in that, you're having something forced upon you, but sometimes you feel like you're in a position where the only thing you can do, correct? Mm-hmm. which does force that internal intuitive gut feeling that your power is being taken from you, or your voice is being taken from you. And when that happens, you are not fully invested in the process. It's a hundred percent. It's why when I work with people, I say, here's all of the information. I would love to support you, but I am not a high pressure saleswoman because this practice is not gonna serve your highest and best good if you are not fully in all of those facets, spiritually, emotionally, and physically invested in this. Mm-hmm. you will see the needle change some, but you have to believe it. Believe in it. Mm-hmm. feel in the core gut of your body that this is going to serve your highest and best good. And when you believe that in the fabric of your being, you're going to have a very different outcome. It's hundred percent with people who have surgical intervention. Mm-hmm. like if they go into it truly believing that this is what I have to do right now, their outcome will be better. Yep. Mm-hmm. Then if they, nobody's resilient. Mm-hmm. It is and it's, it's brilliant. It knows what it needs to do. Mm-hmm. It has disharmonies because we put them there a hundred percent. The interruption. Totally, totally. We interrupt it from an ego space. Yep. So again, it all comes back to ego when we were so obsessed mm-hmm. with having to quantify everything. Yes. And it's so beautiful to me to watch these modalities that have been around for thousands of years, no less like mm-hmm. the medicine that we practice here in the United States. It's only been around. What is it, 200 years maybe? Yeah. It's a baby. It It's a baby in the grand scheme of things. Right? So we look at that and then we look at these modalities that have been around for thousands of years, and I'm like, did they need studies to do any of this? Did they have to have a randomized controlled clinical trial to believe that the application of like, you know, Pancho Karma in Veda was gonna be effective? Or did they just apply and then apply again and tweak if need be and apply again? And eventually they had a beautiful recipe that just worked. And you know how they knew it worked? They watched it. They watched people respond to it. They watched bodies respond to it. They took biofeedback, which in my opinion is the best data. Mm-hmm. we could possibly ask for. There is no way that we are ever going to be able to quantify the dynamics of everyday living in a controlled setting. Mm-hmm. we can't do it. So even the data that we do have, right. And I suppose there's an argument for need for data in some spaces. I have a tendency to be like, yeah, if the patient's body or the client's body is telling me that it's a go, I don't need a paper to tell me. It's not a go. I don't even know where that thought was going, but like it's so interesting to me to just watch our obsession with quantification through a controlled study that can't capture what it actually means to be a human being and that is ego. a hundred percent. That was something that I came up hard against. I'm still thinking about your why is what we do. Quack. Oh yeah. That could be a whole podcast. It could totally be, and maybe we should do that. But I was thinking a lot about what you were saying in that vain and when I first came into peri steam hydrotherapy. there was a lot of challenging. Yeah. Against its safety. Why should you do it? You know, like all of that kind of, it changes your pH, like all of that garbage that's out there. Mm-hmm. and because it was picked up by some very large media outlets. Mm-hmm. people are like, oh, this is doctors saying this is bad, so it must be bad. And I would get clients who would say, well, I found this on the internet. I can't find any studies on it. Like, why should I try this? Right. Well, okay. Some of it is the fact that there are studies, but in other countries, and we have, again, ego, right? Mm-hmm. if it's not done here in the United States, it's not good enough. Correct. Instead of, honestly, I would argue other countries are better at performing a percent studies. Yep, a hundred percent. And I would agree with that. And like some of the studies that I would share with people, cuz Korean Pub Med has some very beautiful literature on this. Mm-hmm. they also have more of an integrative way of using some of the modality that I use with allopathic medicine for better outcomes. Mm-hmm. there was a lot of literature that came out about this integrative approach using allopathic model and eastern medicine. I mean, even as recently as looking at treating people who had had long covid, for example. Mm-hmm. so. There is so much wisdom in the ancient art. And there, you know, I used to tell people when they were like, well, there's no data on there about it. And I'm like, well, but it's a 7,000 year old technology. That's a lot of vaginas. My money's on that. No joke. No. And I look and they're like, what? And I think there's this attempt to erase things too. Like we're just like, if it doesn't fit into our box, we're just gonna erase the idea that it exists. And like we were just saying, The information you're looking for is available in other countries. You just have to know what to look for. Oh. And how to find it. Because most of our browsers are not built to allow us full visibility of what's available for us to actually make an informed decision. And I think that's the hardest part, is ego and informed decision walk hand in hand. Because if people are trying to find that information and they can't, or what comes up in the first five hits of a search engine is all negative, negative, negative, negative. Uhhuh because of the number of clicks of that particular engine. Yep. But not even looking at, you know, I think anecdotal and experiential information is invaluable. I agree. It's potent. because if it's working, it's working like this is, and you usually see it across multiple different people. So like different ages, different ethnicities, different points in their life, different socioeconomic influence. Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, if you are getting positive outcomes mm-hmm. but then you've got an ego voice of mm-hmm. the patriarchal system, even if it's coming out of a female mouthpiece. Yep. Naysaying. Mm-hmm. right when I started putting together a, a training program for peri steam hydrotherapy, I've been working on my own course and one of the aspects of it is to look at some of those voices to be able to critically think right about the motivations behind it, why they would say it. And the theme that runs through everything that I have found so far is anyone who says anything from that space has never sat down with somebody that has training. Mm-hmm. to explain it to. Well, that would require them to detach from their cognitive dissonance. Right. And God forbid we let go of the cognitive dissonance. I don't know about you, but for me, like if you had met me 10 years ago, I had cognitive dissonance, right? Like I had to become chronically ill so that I could personally understand what it meant to be impacted by these modalities. Right? So it usually takes some sort of traumatic event for us to get to this place and space, sadly. But the larger body of medicine has this fear. Mm-hmm. of being really seen. Mm-hmm. And if they're really seen, that means that we get to poke holes in their approach and God forbid we poke holes in their approach because that creates room for other types of support. Mm-hmm. But in reality, they're poking their own holes. by refusing to acknowledge that there are other modalities that could be equally, if not more so supportive in conjunction or in lieu of what they're offering. It's supposed to be about the patient. Yes, it is. It's supposed to be about the person coming in for whatever the service or support that they're seeking. And it's not anymore. It's not. It's not, and there's such a disconnect. Sometimes there isn't even eye contact made in the appointment. Like that's how deep that disconnect lies. Mm-hmm. and the people that work with me, even the ones that still are very much a subscriber, Getting allopathic support are starting to notice these areas of disconnect. Mm-hmm. and feeling less and less of a connection. Like I get asked quite often, can you make a referral for a doctor because they know that they need a doctor for some reason. So let's say that they are potentially a high risk pregnancy. They know that they are going to need a doctor. So high risk pregnancy, 3% of pregnancies just gonna put that out there. Okay? We do not need to have cesarean for 97% of the population. That's a topic for another day. But if somebody's, that makes me rage in my chest face. So oof, man. So, you know, let's say you've got somebody that's a high-risk pregnancy, they'll come to me and they'll go, can you make a recommendation? Mm-hmm. for an ob gyn because they know that they need one for the safety of them and their baby. That is like-minded like me. Mm-hmm. and I struggle sometimes to make that connection for people because of the way that the system is working. Mm-hmm. and I have tried to educate OBGYNs about what I do, how I do it, how it can be a support in what they, what they do. And that it really comes with very minimal, if any risk at all. You can take the ego out of the doctor, but you can't take the doctor outta the ego, if that makes sense. Or vice versa. So like even the doctors, and I commend them for moving away from the space because they're, you know, they're recognizing that the practice that they're engaging in isn't really serving humanity or the greater collective, but like, it's even difficult to find those doctors finding their footing outside of the the space because there's still that indoctrination and that, you know, ingrained knowing of, I'm a doctor and I know best. and that goes back to the model that they go through that trauma. Mm-hmm. of their training. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it's equally as gross guys to observe that outside of the conventional paradigm too. I almost think it's more offensive cuz you're like, I actually thought you were different. Mm-hmm. And maybe I'm not giving you enough credit and maybe you are different, but I'm not recognizing that difference in your behavior. I actually thought you were different and it's heartbreaking when you get to that space. Yeah. Because when people, it's another trauma. It is. It's another medical system associated trauma. Mm-hmm. that comes out of ego. Yep. And I can't tell you the number of women who they start their conversations with me. all from a place of, I went seeking help. I wasn't seen, I wasn't heard. I'm here. I have no idea if you can help me, right? But I'm willing to try because what I've been trying isn't working. It is literally the definition of insanity. Mm. you keep trying the same things over and over again expecting different results, and you don't get them. Mm-hmm. a different doctor, applying the same thing. You ego thinks that they're actually gonna execute differently when in reality the technology's not different. Mm-hmm. and once again, like you're saying, we have a person that's subjected to the same therapy with a different person applying, and because the person cannot disconnect from their ego and say, you should probably try something different, or we should look at another route. Mm-hmm. it's like, let's do this again. Different circus, same monkeys. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ugh. It just breaks my heart because it stands as a roadblock in terms of anyone moving forward. Well then you have to earn trust. And by no means am I averse to earning trust, but sometimes the gauntlet that you're put through as the quote alternative, I find that so disrespectful. By the way, it's the original medicine. I'm not an alternative practitioner. I practice modalities that have been around for thousands of years and are the original medicine. I digress. Right. But then we're put in a position of earning trust that we didn't lose. Mm-hmm. a hundred percent when I first started this work. Mm-hmm. I felt like I had to run a thousand miles an hour at every, like training, certification, further education, anything that was gonna put a piece of paper on my frigging wall. Yeah. And I hate to say that, but I was feeling pressured. I did the same thing. I get it. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. you, you feel pressured by the system and the fact that the narrative questions. Mm-hmm. your competency, your understanding, your ability, and all of these things. If you do not have MD after your name, the reality of it is though, and you know this cuz we've talked about this, but it bears worth repeating. We are usually more competent in broader strokes because we are not so attached to one system and the way that it functions, everything matters. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And nothing works in isolation. And I don't understand why that's such a foreign concept to so many people too. Well that's how medicine was originally taught. Yes. You app apprenticed, you learned with somebody. There was an experiential piece like you were talking about earlier. this kind of wisdom was passed down generationally, like nothing like it is now. Mm-hmm. you know, like you were taught how to read the body, look at the body, like I love tongue diagnosis because you're looking at what's right in front of you right then. Yes. It's so interesting. When I worked in the clinical setting, I was in all like primary care, the hospital, long and short-term care, palliative care, my favorite physicians to spend time with were the ones that were trained in India. Mm-hmm. because they totally approached their patients different and you could see it. Everything was like, what can I visualize? Is there a palpation technique I can utilize? What can I garner from their tongue? The color of their skin? The color of their eyes, the pupil, right? Like what their fingernails look like. They could literally use biofeedback on the canvas that is the body. Mm-hmm. to put a picture together. And then they would make their comments about a diagnosis and they would use the technology of the United States to confirm and it like astounded people. And I'm like, this is what it means to be trained in the fluency of the body and its feed. Mm-hmm. That is such a beautiful example. I do something kind of similar also. Yeah. Because I look at the body, one of my clients jokingly calls me the period whisperer because just from blood color presentation, pm m s symptoms, all of that stuff, I can tell you what's going on in your system. Right. And then I will tell them to talk to their doctor about these tests, or I'll talk to their doctor about this, or somebody wants to see if their cyst is shrinking or disappeared, or they wanna see what's happening with their fibroid. And then I will encourage them. Sure. Go have a scan done. Right. Go get the tangible data. Mm-hmm. and with very few exceptions, because obviously there's a level of compliance and participation on the part compliance part. Mm-hmm. person. Right. But you'll see a change. Yeah. And then they're like, oh, my Western allopathic test just confirmed that this quackery thing is actually freaking working. Holy cow. Right? Yeah. And I, I love when that happens. Mm-hmm. I invite people to do that because mm-hmm. I have an unwavering faith in, of course, what I practice, and I know they're going to see the change that they want to see testament is the testimonial, right? Mm-hmm. like when you are a living testament, you become a testimonial, and that's for everyone. And that's kind of how this has to work and that's how it continues to work. But there's beauty in that too, because it's not quantification, it's a lived experience. And what's more potent than embodying a lived experience. Mm-hmm. try to convince somebody who's actually experienced something that it doesn't work. Best of luck. you're not gonna change their mind. They're gonna be like, oh no, no. I did this. I saw a difference. I got better things improved. I have tools for a lifetime. It works. Absolutely, absolutely. Tools for a lifetime are huge because you're putting somebody in the driver's seat of their health. Right. And that is immense amount of power because part of how this model steals our power is they don't teach us. So we don't know what we don't know. Mm-hmm. it's like you and I have talked about like the female menstrual cycle. How many women don't know what length? Like, Hey Adrian, what's the length of your cycle? Four days. Okay. Not what I meant, but thank you. That was great. I need to know that too. So that answers my next question. But like first day of bleed to next, first day of bleed, like we don't teach. Mm-hmm. our girls this, right? Or we teach them that hormonal contraception is the only way to prevent pregnancy when in reality that's not the only way to prevent pregnancy. We can educate our daughters and then allow them to make the decision as to what feels best for them. Like we can encourage exploration, you know, and I think back, even as my journey. in this experience. Mm-hmm. as a practitioner, at the very beginning, I did not realize just how entrenched and indoctrinated I was. Not even, yes. Even gone through allopathic medical training. Yeah. I still had this understanding and belief that pieces of paper on my wall validated what I knew letters after my name validated what I do. Mm-hmm. and that I, okay, so again, all ego, I, I, mm-hmm. was a brilliant practitioner that could solve these problems for people. And then I realized and had one of those like moments where I'm like, hold on a second, this is not I. Mm-hmm. That is ego. I am not the one doing this. I am the educator. I am the cheerleader. Sister speaks I am the coach. I am the confidant. Yes, because sometimes we talk 1% about what's going on in the body and the rest of the 99.9% about the fact that they're going through a divorce or they had a loss in their family or their kids breaking out in hives. Three straight months, you know, like the grief around their miscarriage anniversary is coming up and then they go, and my period was terrible this month. And I go, but honey, there's a connection. Of course your body's gonna show up this way because there are these other things going on. And so I've had people apologize to me in appointments and go, oh, I'm so sorry. Like, that's all I talked about the whole time. And I'm like, but that's what needed to happen in this space because you, you needed a place to park that in order for your body to show up for you. Mm-hmm. because emotions are energy in our system, they disrupt normal function. If we deny. It's called liver cheese stagnation. Mm-hmm. when we try to suppress mm-hmm. the fact that we're in extreme grief or we're angry about something or whatever, if we're just trying to put on a stiff upper lip and like look like we don't have anything going on. That's American culture. That is American culture is western culture at large. Mm-hmm. And the thing is, is this is why we have high rates of heart attacks and other types of things of cancer that happen because we suppress this stuff. Mm-hmm. when I see women with fibroids, when I see women with history of cancer, there is very often the theme of a suppressed voice somewhere in their narrative. Mm-hmm. And it's heartbreaking because the body gets that disruption. Mm-hmm. from its normal brilliance. Mm-hmm. And it either doesn't have the energy to show up in the way that it needs to, or there's something blocking it as it's trying to show up the way that it needs to. And if we can just take that out of the way and sometimes that's just creating a space for emotions to exist. Yeah. Yes. That's one of our superpowers. We are sensient, we have the ability to emote and we avoid one of our superpowers. Absolutely. And it creates havoc. Mm-hmm. in our system. Mm-hmm. And so I truly. Realized at that moment just how deep that ego narrative runs. Mm-hmm. in the therapeutic space. Mm-hmm. and I realized, no, I am not doing these things. I have wisdom and guidance to share, to impart, to help reinforce, but they, this is again, goes back to that I'm not a high pressure saleswoman. Mm-hmm. you have to emotionally, spiritually, and physically be invested in this process because all of those parts show up in care. Well, yeah. It's so interesting you were saying about the certifications in the paper and like, I always have to like giggle to myself when I have this conversation in my head because I'm like, if you went to a remote village in China or India or Mexico and you spoke to the indigenous community, would they have certifications on their wall? No, exactly. This is my point. I laugh and I say no. However, I do know that there are communities where the folk medicine is framed to be a second class citizen and that the people who have money can give birth at the hospital. Right. So that creates, again, that stature. Mm-hmm. Thing that precedent. Mm-hmm. That if you have to give birth with the plant medicine woman, oh my god. Run me in that direction. That's great. You can have my bed. I'm good. Me too. I'll pay for it. Yeah. I gave birth at home, like Uhhuh and it was a beautiful experience. Mm-hmm. So yeah, run me in that direction as well. But like, it has to do with the ego. Mm-hmm. and the social construct, the narrative that there is around yet, who do people go to when they're desperate? Mm-hmm. those of us that do the quackery. And then what's the thing that finally puts the period at the end of the sentence? Yeah, absolutely. The quackery. The quackery always because it's there to work with your body. Mm-hmm. not against your body. I always say pharmaceuticals are like that drunk person at the bar, just like So themselves in conversation. Like you're in an intimate like conversation with one of your friends and then you have that person that is one way too close and is too like spitting beer in your face and you're like, I did not invite you to this conversation, but you're just gonna insert yourself. You're an imposition. Like pharmaceuticals to me are that imposition, like, I'm here and I'm coming in hot. We're. herbs, teas, extractions, distillations are like, Hey, can I stand right here? Mm-hmm. I'll make myself quiet. Right. But I just wanna be part of the conversation. I've got your bag. I'm here to support you if you need me. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yep. Is there not beauty in that? Cuz I'm like, yo, do you want the veer person or do you want the friend that's like, I'm here for support. Mm-hmm. Right. Well, and the support person. Mm-hmm. changes your experience at the root level. Mm-hmm. because you feel seen and you feel safe and validated, and you feel safe and you feel heard. All of those things. It's like salt. Do you know how many people are afraid of salt? I'm sure you hear this too, like you want me to eat sodium? Didn't we spend Yes. The last like two decades villainizing it. Yeah, we totally did. But your cells run off of sodium, potassium pumps. Your stomach acid pulls chloride from sodium chloride like, hello, mother Nature didn't make a mistake, but do you know the example I use to get it to click today? I'm like, when you've gone out and had one too many wobbly pops, that's what they call them in Canada, right? And you wake up the next morning and you're hugging the porcelain throne because you had one too many lollipops. What do we have the beauty of accessing these days? IVs? What are they gonna do when you go in for that iv? They're gonna hang an isotonic solution and rehydrate you. Do you know what's in that isotonic solution? Salt, salt but it clicks when you say it like that, it's like, oh, well, and I explain it to people with, uh, cravings around their periods. Yeah. Because they're like, oh, I had all these cravings. And I'm like, okay, so tell me for what? And that question always like surprises people like, oh, not just sweets. It was weird. Usually that's how it starts. It was weird. I craved potato chips and I was like, you craved salt. Yes. I was like, so that is one of the five flavors and tcm, right? Yep. So like if you're craving sugary things, it's because your body is looking for sweet. Mm-hmm. It's not looking for the candy bar, actually. Mm-hmm. It's looking for the sweet potato. But that's okay. Like, right. That tells me that we're looking at spleen, stomach stuff or salt. We're looking at kidney stuff, which PS I have to shout out Adrian right here, right now because yes, I work with her and it's been the best collaboration ever. Zero cravings this cycle, like my period is knocking on the door. I think we're gonna make it past a 20 what, four day cycle? Yeah. We've been working on building time in and I have no cravings. The only thing that I have is fatigue. So guys, if you think that steam now steaming is amazing. I love, I, I'm kind of sad that I don't get to steam longer and more days in a row, but we have maybe one day, you know? But like, if you guys don't think that this works, and I was doing a shit ton of things. I know my body really well. Before I met Adrian, I needed the support and I needed the tweak. Mm-hmm. And sometimes it's just having the beauty of another lens to look at the same thing or having someone else hold space. Because, you know, as practitioners, we hold a lot of space for people all day, every day. And it's a privilege that's by no mean a complaint, right. Percent. But that also oftentimes means that we're real. Like we're not always that great at holding it for ourselves, you know? So a hundred percent and that is not coming from a place of ego. Ps the admission right there is, you know, putting my ego aside and saying, I need help. I am the exact same way. I know all the things and yet mm-hmm. in the execution of holding space for others, I often lose myself. Yes. And. I jokingly tell my acupuncturist that she doubles as my therapist Cause I go in and I'm just like verbal diarrhea with all the things that are going on. Mm-hmm. like, you know, my dog died and that grief and this frustration with my teen and this, you know, all of these things. And I'm like, just needle me everywhere. And it, because I know that it helps her care for me. Mm-hmm. But as a practitioner, there aren't many places I feel like I can safely park that either. I think it's important that you, you mentioned this though, because we don't know what we don't know. Mm-hmm. and like, we're not here to read your mind or assume. So like, we may be picking up on things, but like, I don't know about you, but I'm not gonna go. Taking stabs at things until you're like opening the door and saying, come on in. I'm gonna share this with you. So we don't know what we don't know. So I'm sure your acupuncturist is like, this is great. I know where to go with all of this and what to do. Yep. Mm-hmm. and I know that it. Up levels her ability to care for me, which is why I share all the things, but it's also nice to have a place to park all of that. Yeah. Um, I remember at the very beginning of my journey in this direction, I thought I wanted to be a music therapist. It's funny how it ended up coming full circle in 20 so many years. Yeah. Yeah. I, I don't wanna disclose that number because that makes me feel old. But as I think about where I started, one of the things that she said to me is, therapists need. Therapists. So yeah, if you're going to do this work, you need a place for your emotional stuff to go. Mm-hmm. And the more that I've traveled along this journey, I realize just how important that is. Because that authenticity, that ability to unpack your own emotional stuff, helps you to hold space for your clients to be able to release what they need. Mm-hmm. that isn't serving their journey. Right? A hundred percent. All of that requires you to get out of that ego space and be a container to hold. And this isn't to say that ego doesn't exist in these like quote, alternative healing modalities. How many practitioners do you meet that have to hold on to everyone and be everything to all their clients? And you're like, yeah, I'm just gonna sit back here and watch you burn out. Because eventually you're gonna come to learn that that doesn't serve you and it doesn't serve your clients and it doesn't serve their needs. And the superpower is really in collaboration. It really is. It takes a village. Mm-hmm. it takes a village to raise a child. It takes a village to properly care for the multifaceted, multi-dimensional being that is you. And no joke, I mean, I say this respectfully, I don't wanna be all of that to one person. Like the role that you take or the role that I take, it's a privilege. And I'm like, that's enough. Mm-hmm. let me, you know, like you need a different kind of like, let's collaborate here and then when we all come together with one person, holy cow. Mm-hmm. it's infinite possibility, infinite possibilities. And it's, it's beautiful. Yeah. That's healing. Mm-hmm. that is healing. And then women, typically women, I, I have more experience with women. I just don't get as many men saying, Hey, I wanna run testing and I wanna better understand, or I wanna spend four months with you in an immersion. Like fine, you know? But like typically women then go, oh, other women are safe. Mm-hmm. Yep. And other women know how to share, and other women know how to hold space because that heals a wound. Mm-hmm. Yep. And that heals a wound, a deep seated wound. Mm-hmm. on so many levels. cam, did we just like peel apart how our ego kind of just dissolve? Is it egoic to say that like, Hey guys, my ego totally dropped in practice and let me just toot my horn about that. but that's why I love these conversations. But it because it encourages you to think mm-hmm. and reflect on what is my role in the whole model, in the care of my client, in my place and their journey. All of those things like ego doesn't serve us. Mm-hmm. it's a roadblock to growth, transformation, healing, and true essence of who we are. Could you end on a more positive note, like, I don't even think I need to say anything after that. Adrian, just, Mike dropped I love you and I love conversations. I love you too like this because, you know, there we just went all over the forest. We did, but the thread went all the way through it because it, it's all interconnected. Mm-hmm. it's all interconnected from an emotional, spiritual, and physical place. And honestly, ego perpetuates as gab or would say the myth of normal. Ooh, nothing that we do is actually normal. And I'm gonna leave us with that for you to think about because that is also a fabulous mic drop. So if people were to look to work with you, Taylor, how could they find you at Tailored Wellbeing on Instagram is the easiest way to find and explore. Please explore, please make sure you like the things I put out. Please watch my stories a few times. Guys, I don't hold back on a whole lot and that's not super comfortable for everyone and not everybody loves my approach and that's okay. I'm not supposed to be the cup of tea that's supposed to be in everyone's hand. So Instagram's gonna give you a real up close and personal look at the way we, meaning my community approach this and obviously we collaborate very intimately with Adrian. So Instagram, it's the place to. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for another Thank you. Incredible conversation, Taylor, and we're, we'll keep doing this with each other. So I was gonna say, we obviously need to do this again, Yes, would love to. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us for this episode of the Reproductive Rebel Podcast. Until next time, Thank you for joining me for another episode of Reproductive Rebel Reproductive. Rebel is recorded by certified peri steam hydrotherapist, herbalist, sound healer, and Chinese nutritional therapist, Adrian IRI of Moon Essence L L c. If you are interested in setting up an appointment with Adrian for one-on-one support, ordering from our store or checking out our course offerings, visit our website at Moon essence dot. be sure to subscribe to our newsletter to get insider information on upcoming events and offerings. Join the conversation like us and follow Moon Essence, me on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, or LinkedIn. Your voices make this program possible. Thank you all for your continued support.